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 Discussing Dreams

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Tiphereth

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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 2:26 pm

cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 2:30 pm

Tiphereth wrote:
Nice post with Lasekura, RPM. You wrote his character well, even down to his apprehension of ingesting a sedative. I mimic the character of Sayid Jarrah from Lost, how he can be so pleasant and yet aggressive at the same time.


Thanks. For some reason, I had him pegged as being like Sayid. Brutal when the need arrised yet, as you stated, pleasent. Such a conflict of character all in the same person.

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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 2:40 pm

Sayid is my favourite character. And he got shot! I was so devastated when that happened.

Yeah, Lasekura would be like a bigger Sayid. You pegged him right.

I am going to delete Sandy Graves, he's dead and played his part. I think I am going to replace him with Lasekura and keep him around for a while. He would probably want to stick around Mierathal and help the guards out in case there may be Ta'kun raiding parties in the area now.

I figure the Greater Ta'kun wouldn't bother with such trivial matters but the Lesser are like scavengers, and might track the refugees to the coastal town and attempt to reek some havoc.

A small raiding party that may attempt a night time attack perhaps? Something small to keep people on there toes, but nothing that is going disrupt the entire setting. Just an event so that people can get some payback and regain some courage.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 2:54 pm

Sounds good to me.

I can't wait to see what's going to happen next season on Lost. Left us all hanging in the wind, as usual!

And bring Lasekura on in as a main character. I think he would be a good addition to the group.

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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 5:39 pm

Wow! I seem to be absent at the most inopportune times...

In any case, I am certainly flattered that you all seem willing to entrust me with the 'fate' of this story, so to speak...but I will probably have to decline the honor for reasons I shall mention here.

But to begin with, I should explain that the dragons on Cursha's island were indeed discussed behind the scenes between Socks and I. They were meant to illustrate part of the story between the mermadon, Cursha, and the dragon overlords... And I imagine the dragoness should remain as the story continues, though I do confess that I feel a little off-kilter about the whole story without Socks here with all his backgruond knowledge, which I was rather counting upon.

That is not to say I think this story should die. I know that all the writers here are very creative and have the power to perpetuate stories so long as they want to. I am sure we can keep this thread going as long as interest persists. I, personally, AM a bit disoriented now, though, because so much of my characters and plans were wrapped up in Sock's characters and mysterious plans, I think. It will definitely take me some readjusting of my perception of reality.

As far as me guiding this story's dragon and dragonkin elements in Sock's place... Well, as I said, I am honored any of you might think of that, and I do wish I could step up. I think I could cobble something together from the hints Socks has left us, that could keep the themes and characters unified and plausible...but alack! I am not so free as once I was. I'm afraid, dear friends, that it is all I can do to attempt at least one story post somewhere on the forum most days. Between family committements, mounting responsibilities at work, weddings, funerals, a possible move across country, and all the other fine fragments of RL that can invade a life...I fear my own grip on forum life may be slipping.

I definitely don't want that to happen, since I feel committed to these stories and care about all of you. I am well aware this isn't an ordinary forum, and I certainly don't plan on leaving any time soon. But it is becoming difficult for me, and I therefore doubt I am the best choice to patch together this story and keep Sock's antagonists going.

But I know we all like this story a lot and it will not disappear off the face of the earth so easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 6:05 pm

Well said, Amanda.

We all completely understand everything RL can throw at us and it seems it throws quite a bit at us when we already seem to have a full plate. There's no doubt that between the talent of writing we have on this forum we will move the story along. Perhaps we will all regain our bearings very soon and who knows what will happen then.

The antagonistic Ta'kun and mermadon and dragonkin will continue to be a thorn in the humans side. We'll make sure of that.

We will move the story along as close to what Socks wanted and try our best to keep his vision alive.

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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 6:27 pm

So the discrepancy that I had asked Socks about was the battle between the Dragons lasting 'several days'. Payden had just entered the throne room then all of a sudden a lapse of two or more days occurred? So I was confused.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Thu May 21, 2009 6:28 pm

BTW I posted some Dragon pics in the gallery if any wish to use them. I have tons more as well of all sorts of things.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 4:41 am

Dragon Lore


I have always loved Dragons and imagined them to be grand magical beasts, powerful and noble, with a wisdom as great as their near immortal life spans. The affairs of men would more or less be inconsequential to them unless of course this insignificant breed were to become a threat.

Thus far the Dragons of No More Dreams have been far less then grand and despite all their long years react in a manner that is more befitting of a misbehaving child. Perhaps my interpretation is off, but the language they use seems more like the immature stories of Brisinger and I have found myself chuckling at their dialogue as I can almost hear the voice of Sean Connery.

The Dragons speak telepathically am I correct?

Tolkien being a linguist approached the creation of a race from the perspective he knew, it's what set him a part from C.S. Lewis, and truly most of we know from other cultures is derived from studying their language. Part of the richness of the world that he wove was due to his attention to the detail of the different tongues and so I was trying to imagine what Dragons might really sound like. Obviously for ease of writing their words are translated accordingly, but I believe they would hardly use our idioms, instead they would by interpretation of the human mind sound more regal. A Dragons voice would boom with majestic old world tones and would not lower themselves to slang.

Since we have an opportunity to add some of our own touches to the Dragons, what say we restore some of their nobility? Thus far these creatures have seemed so arrogant that they are completely beyond all reason. To them Humans are trivial, I think we get that, but these beings having an intelligence equal if not surpassing man-kind would be a little more communicative in their affairs rather than constantly destroying everything before them.

I think we should all have a hand in fleshing out these beasties and mold them in something other than bullies and anything we deem as concrete we can enter in a topic called 'Dragon Lore'. Also in this topic I think we should add some paraphrased posts from the past just for reference, honestly the Dragon posts are so infrequent that I hardly have any sense of them. Though they are a major part of the story they have hardly had a very prominent role other than nearly wiping out civilization. I understand that more was to come of them, but I think we developed so much of our characters without them being around that we literally built the world without them. We can remedy that now and take careful consideration to have Dragons and Dragonkin make more frequent appearances and tie it into the plot, rather every encounter being a blood bath.

So how does this sound?

Also I still propose that we begin a new book, we can call it a New Dawn or something imaginative. Perhaps move some of the posts after the Dragon battle post into the new post.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 6:37 am

With the fall of Fort Glory and the relocation of the characters in the story line, I think it only logical to start a new charpter. I also like the idea of developing the dragons more into the story line. The Dragon Lore idea is good as well, Dragons were noble and majestic magical creatures. And you are correct dragons did not have a voice but spoke telepathicaly. I have an addy for a site somewhere that is a great dragon site, full of facts about dragons. I will try and find it over the extended weekend.

Which reminds me, all you who are traveling this weekend remember it is armature weekend. All the armatures will be out, new and old, so everyone be cautious. After all us professional drunks and partiers have a reputation to maintain. Smile What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 7:08 am

From the books I've read involving Dragons, they have all communicated telepathically, unless they took humanoid forms. Only then did they choose to speak as one of the humans. But that didn't happen very often as they preferred their majestic, scaled forms to that of the flesh world.

The Dragon Lore topic sounds like a good idea. I think we could use that to help us when it came time for the dragons.

Dragons knew they were superior beings. They were, at times, arroganr, but not all the time. Rightfully so, of course. After all, they had been around much longer than their humanoids. But that's not to say they didn't treat the humanoids like kindergartners. They knew the humanoids had abilities that could destroy them given the right opportunity and therefore they respected that and gave the humanoids a wide girth. Most books I read the dragons prefered not to get into a conflict with the humonoids knowing the fleshy creatures would find a way to do more harm to the large, flying lizards. Not to say there weren't those dragons who found it entertaining to engage the humonoids for what ever reason, of course.

Anyway, I like the ideas and I like the idea of a new topic since the old one is pretty much finished.

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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 10:29 am

Excellent, the reason behind my thinking on this matter is to provide us all with the same picture of the Dragons. We need to all agree what their motives are, their culture, their traits, etc.

There is no way that we as writers can incorporate the Dragons into our posts if we are kept in the dark. Eventually Vaudeville or someone else could form a solid story line, but we already have the conflict established so anyone should be able to incorporate Dragons when necessary.

Another thing is I don't think it is realistic that the only avenue of our characters is to battle these creatures to the death. Why not have another avenue to follow, an avenue of understanding. What if the characters can over time learn more of these magnificent creatures and casting aside their ignorance learn their ways so that one day they might appeal to them. Personally I think that is a far more interesting way to deal with the Dragons, and I am really surprised that more people are not curious about these creatures and discuss them more often. If there were suddenly Dragons in the world they would tend to dominate my conversations.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 1:21 pm

I like the understanding idea, after all knowledge is power. I think the older characters (age wise that is) would be less inclined to lean towards learning and trying to understand them than some of the younger ones. (Again age wise) The younger ones would be more mystified by them. But even some of the young would be seeking revenge for lost loved ones. Perhaps, a menelovent dragon could appear. One just as curious about the hunans, maybe a young dragon that has been injured and one of the humans help it. Thus these two learn to trust eachother and start to build a bridge between the two races. It could be a long tenacious process wrought with set backs and triumphs. Might make a nice sub plot.
Thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 1:45 pm

Yes precisely!

The Dragons would all have different goals just like Humans. Some may sympathize while others believe in totally obliterating all. It will be something we will have discuss further so that we are all on board with the sub-plot, but it sounds cool.

The big thing is writing it right and making the Dragon's 'telepathic words' a little cryptic. One would think that they may speak in total metaphor or in someway that is difficult for a Human to comprehend. Thus breaking the language barrier could be a theme.

I think before any encounters though we should maybe have some discoveries and revelations along the way. I have little idea in the back in of my mind. I believe the land was once completely controlled by Dragons long ago, so buried in the mountains and under the earth there may be remnants of their ancient civilization. Perhaps some of this could be discovered. It would also be one of the reason the Dragons disdain Humans, since they are beginning to dig into things they have no right to.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 1:59 pm

Sounds good and I would like to get the other ideas before we proceed. I do think we have started on a good track though.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 5:05 pm

In answer to your question about the dragon fight over Cursha’s island, Tiph: Two days did not pass since Payden has come to the island. The dragons have been fighting off and on over the past two days BEFORE Cursha and his captives arrived. They were obviously not in the middle of a bout when they sailed up (they must have been taking a rest), or Cursha and Payden and Gertrude would have noticed them. The fight started after Cursha left his island (which he only recently discovered, himself), so he did not know of their presence. They have basically crashed his party. They are dragons, but not terribly powerful ones—in fact, Cursha is probably more powerful than the dragoness who has claimed the island… I just hope it clarifies the situation for you. So, the fight merely resumed when Payden stepped into the throne room, and has now come to a final conclusion. …But enough about that.

Regarding a new chapter and Dragonlore and all, well, I can see it is definitely necessary for someone to take these initiatives. I don’t feel comfortable with the developments, though. I have to say, while the dragons have not been terribly majestic, I do think there has been a decidedly comedic element that has run through the background of this story from the beginning, particularly regarding the dragons and their kin—no doubt because Socks set the tone for the world, and his stories tend towards the satirical—and my feel of the story world is very different from what seems to be taking shape. You see, I’m not entirely convinced that these dragons ARE terribly smart. I’m sure they’re not dummies, but they seem a little too pompous and self-important, greedy and jealous—and yes, even a little silly—to be truly smart or majestic. Powerful, to be sure, but not always majestic.

But as I said, I realize circumstances dictate that we take the story of the dragons into our own hands, and the law of the land in forums is pretty much ‘whoever writes it makes the reality.’ I don’t have enough time in my life to take a more active role in shaping this story, and—realizing that, therefore, my opinion should not weigh too heavily—if this new direction is the most appealing to the majority of writers, that is the direction that should be taken.

I admit I’m not really feeling it, though, having invested my characters and their plots in a different story world than what seems to be taking shape. We shall see, I guess. I’m trying not to let myself get stuck in a rut… I think I’m having a hard time with it because this change is taking place at a time when I’m really distracted by RL and unable to commit my full imaginative powers to re-visualizing this story in a different incarnation.

I don’t mean to be a downer, but I wanted to exercise Democracy a little, I guess! I wonder if, since the complete foundation and background of the story has essentially been lost with the moderator, it would be best to ‘resume’ this thread kind of as a completely new story? But perhaps I am the only one having difficulty.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 5:39 pm

Oh, I agree with you. We should take it completely in a new direction, but as I see it not a lot has been established with the character of Cursha from Payden's point of view. From my perspective it seems that you have many options and honestly from what was written previously of the Dragons I found so cryptic that if there was any foreshadowing I completely missed it. This is probably because I require a rich pool of development to immerse myself in to visualize the story, once I can do that my recall of detail is quite precise.

I for one find the comedic nature of Dragons a little too contrived, but this is just my opinion and one that I do not wish to seem weighty. My vote is to make the Dragons somewhat reasonable so that we might have more options to explore rather than they like cats and we like rats. They need not be highly intelligent creatures but it is hard to imagine that their great life spans would not give them a little more wisdom, of course it seems that their is dissension occurring because of the younger Dragons who have yet to learn their lessons.

I know I probably speak for all when I say that we will leave more than half of the story for you to weave your magic when you have the time and until then we will work on sub-plots that you will be able to draw on if needed. Realistically it is Summer and things will no doubt move rather slowly anyway.

It would be best for this to turn into a Free Form adventure for a while. We discuss everything so it shouldn't be a problem, later if you wish you can become the Director and give us some guidance if you so choose. I really feel that Cursha can have an even greater role in the plot, and I for one would love to see that. His character has such depth that it warrants it.

I suggest that we gravitate to Baloc. It is supposed to be larger than Fort Glory and would have a river running through the middle of it, so it would be sort of like London. It would make an excellent setting for the characters to resume their lives. I know that technically, Fort Glory is not completely destroyed, but I suppose we should debate whether or not everyone wants to partake in a story where they are rebuilding or move on to a new horizon. Fort Glory's economy would be disseminated so people would most likely abandon it to find work and also the Ta'kun just might stick around and hold onto the town as sign of their conquest (which is the option I would prefer). It has an extensive sewer system they could utilize and it gives them a foot hold in the west.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 6:32 pm

I may have jumped the gun a bit with the post of dragon lore ( which I deleted and saved for furture use if needed)

Then shall we put the dragon development on the back burner for a while? Is that concensance? We can always develop a subplot involving then in the background to keep the threat to humanity alive. Gavitating to a larger city sounds like a good idea, it will allow for the expanded development of Faulks and other characters as well as the expanditure of magic. A larger city like Baloc would undoubtedably have a magical society, subculture and following within it. Thus allowing, if Amanda is of the same mind, Cursha, Payden and Gertrude to gravitate to as well.

I agree that we should leave more than half the story for Amanda to weave her magic, when she has the time.

Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Fri May 22, 2009 8:07 pm

Oh, dear me, I don't want you all to wait on me. That won't do at all. You must run with your imaginings!

I suppose I feel off-kilter because I have developed Cursha's story more than what shows in the current text, and the whole business I discussed a lot behind the scenes with Socks. You could say I was kind of relying on him to perpetuate the plot with his dragons. Now, I suppose I shall have to take over those dragons.

Then there is the whole business about the 'prophet,' Cindra Elohn, the Book of the Everlasting, not to mention that missing Pearl...if you all recall.

I certainly had plans for Cursha to play a much bigger part in the story than he has thus far (you could say, this was only to be the beginning), but a lot of it relied on the dragons.

I definitely don't want to be the dictator of this story, nor do I want you all to wait for me to be less busy (the nature of my busyness probably will not end with the end of summer, anyway; and it's not fair to make you wait on me), so I think the only solution is to go compeltely freeform and if things work out with my characters, they do, and if not...well, that's the nature of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Sat May 23, 2009 1:26 am

Hmmm... there are three types of collaborative role-playing, free-form, directed and controlled. What happened during Socks' disappearance for a while there, in my opinion was that the story went free-form and our story lines went off, somewhat from a pre-determined story line, of which none of us were aware of anyway. Such is the prerogative of a director, but in order to keep things on course the pilot has to pop by occasionally to adjust the rudder and give the writers some guidance so that our story lines do not become futile. The story line suddenly went all the way from free form to controlled, which is what I refer to as the most extreme version of role-playing, similar to play and post where the writers have little control over their environment. Personally I found it extremely difficult to make the transition, but that is entirely my fault.

I would like to go free-form with No More Dreams and let our imaginations guide the story as they did prior to the Fall of Fort Glory, the story lines were so interesting and everyone seemed inspired. The direction that followed was disheartening and I found my posts very tedious to say the least.

I believe that Lac and I are pretty much on the same page with the Dragons and all of us should be able to arrive at a suitable description of them with some discussion.

One thing has to be addressed though and that is the nature of the story. If we go free form and each of us invest our own sub-plots to the story, I would ask those story lines to be respected and not stamped out, but rather built upon and guided if a set story line is implemented. If any unfortunately conflict then a simple discussion, at least for me, would be more than adequate to write my way to a common goal, and I have no qualms about keeping these things in the open. That's all. I honestly don't consider for one moment that it would go any other way, but in lieu of recent events I feel it necessary to just let my mind be known. I in no way want to see a dictator return to the story.

Now with all that rubbish aside, I believe that so long as we incorporate more curiousity and more awareness of the Dragons and Dragon-kin, we should stay more true to the story. Now that we can incorporate them in our writings without of fear of upsetting some hidden story line they can be mixed into the daily lives of our characters.

I actually have little recollection of the pearl and I still don't quite understand what the Book of Everlasting is all about. Is it like the bible? Is it a religion? What are people who follow the Book called? I just didn't get it and it seemed like everyone else did so I just kept quiet

I think the Ta'kun should usurp Fort Glory and settle there, then any raids in the area make sense. Stories of what becomes of King Dorian could make there way to the characters along with other horrible tales concerning their captives. Such a scenario would provide a lot of options to continue old and form new stories in Baloc.

While the characters heal both physically and mentally in Mierathal, we can prepare the Dragon Lore and the move to Baloc.

That's my humble opinion on the matter.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Sat May 23, 2009 5:17 am

I think free form would work best, I liked the flow of creativity that expounded at the start.

The pearl and the Book of Everlasting is cloudy in my mind as well. If my memory serves me correctly, and it very well may not, wasn't it like the sacred tablets of the Maradon and Ta'kun's?

And yes, Tiph and I are of the same mind as far as the dragons are concerned. I think they should be interwoven into the lives of our survirors. After all they have had an impact on thier lives from the start in some matter. Now with a stronghold , Fort Glory, the Takun can be expected to become more aggresive and raid out further. The beloved King and princess being captured would give the masses more reason to seek retribution.

I too began to find it difficult to write after the fall of Fort Glory seemed inevitable.

That is my two cents worth.

MMM must go to the bank am running out of pennies.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Sat May 23, 2009 10:08 am

Laughing

I'd loan you some of mine, but I think I am quite in debt. I am seriously lacking in Cents/Sense.

Well since the three of us are in agreement of going Free Form, I am pretty sure that RPM will want to go that route as well. Now that she has her 'Dragon Slayer' back, Colleen will have some inspiration.

I'll make a formal announcement now concerning Basha. I let, Lac in on it and Socks was aware of it of course, but Basha's 'Fall' was just a fall, he didn't die. I have been waiting for enough time to elapse to cover his unconsciousness, but his story will continue.

As for Payden, I have no trouble having him follow your schedule Vaudeville. When ever you have the time to jump into Cursha's shoes, just give me any extra guidance if you want things to flow a certain way if you fear I may misinterpret your post and go rogue on you. Very Happy
I am sorry that so much of what you planned may no come to fruition now, but I know that as we go along new and possibly more exciting possibilities will develop.

I look forward to resuming the free form style we began with! The is will be FULLY AWESOME! I think I have watched Bolt too many times, it's my little guys favourite movie right now, and I think Rhino is da bomb.

I am in complete agreement with the capture of King Dorian. That will print some newspapers.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Sat May 23, 2009 10:31 am

Oh and Vaudeville, I am not making any posts from Payden until you establish what happening with the Dragons and Cursha on the island. As you know that part of the story is quite ahead. I am still quite amazed you could decipher the the Dragon battle post like that, I was totally baffled.

Though I was hoping that we could try and establish the character of the Dragons before that.

What are your thoughts on the matter? If you wish you could bring the Dragon in at later time perhaps.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Sun May 24, 2009 4:05 pm

I have an idea to offer some closure of the characters left in Fort Glory and to carry on Yassun's siege, plus deal with King Dorian. I think people will like the idea and it will offer many of the characters a chance to participate in the sub-plot, while not forcing people to follow it. In the tradition of free-form style this will just be a course that people can follow if they wish, but I will ensure that I keep up the posts on it so that people don't have to search back to refresh their memories.

I will also introduce some other tid-bits like the Mermadon language, a deciphering of the Ta'kun tongue, the strange black metal and just touch upon Dragons, but nothing of the Dragons will be cast in stone until we have made some decisions on their behaviour.

Should be able to get that up tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussing Dreams   Tue May 26, 2009 10:40 am

I think, and this is just my opinion, Socks was giving the Dragons a persona that Amanda hit on the head. They aren't dummies, but rather full of themselves. There is a reason why they attacked the humans. Remember, it was the Dragons that started this war, not the humans. At least, not by directly attacking the Dragons. Maybe the humans started it by "trashing" the worl the Dragons once ruled over. I sort of based the Dragons appearance to that of Reign of Fire. No one knew they were ther until it was too late. And once they were unleashed, there was no way of defeating them. Or so it seemed.

I think Socks portrayed the Dragons very well. And he did have them communicate telepathically. While they are majestic creatures, they DO have moments of being spiteful and petty. There was an obvious reason as to WHY they came back. We just need to concentrate on that. And I believe they were treating the humans as rats because of something that happened we haven't found out about yet. Are they pissed off at mankind for making their once beautiful world nothing but a land fill? Or are they acting on something more primal and instictive than being spiteful? Especially with the Ta'kun in the picture. I sort of compared them to the Sleestacks from Land of the Lost. They were intelligent, but not as advanced (or so humans think) as humans.

I'd like to see the Dragons developed more, but I would like to keep them somewhere along the line Socks had them going as well. I think there is a way we can incorporate what both Dann and Tiph are saying along with what Amanda and I invision. I think it would be a good combination and keep things as close to the way they were initially portrayed.

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