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 SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC

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SinTara
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:08 pm

I too, will make the proper corrections for my character. LOL Can't wait to get started!!!

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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:16 pm

Changed my character's profile. Will make more corrections as soon as we decide exactly what year the story is starting in as well as town name if needed.

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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:49 pm

I have not seen a time line mentioned anywhere. That should be standing out in BOLD lettering. Hmmm... have to rewrite my bio too. Lac, where did you see this date? I am really not too familiar with pre-civil war history and most of the Westerns I have seen or read are almost always post-war. There are few good John Wayne flicks that take place during it but then all there is going on is the North and South conflict and its as if nothing else is going on in the States but the war. I'm game though to give it a go after I do some research and recreate my character.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:31 pm

So Custer's defeat at Little Big Horn was 1876, but the correct time is 1861 right? That's sort of what it seems like.

Okay, so from what I have read, Lincoln will currently be calling on all states to provide volunteers for the Union army. Basically anyone who is patriotic will be heading off to war, so how she would write our characters? I am not sure if want to submit old Buck, but he's just the kind of guy who wouldn't be headed to war, other than those men who are staying home for their families. Maybe I should make a 'John-boy' character of course the hour long 'good nights' could get rather annoying.

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MAP/TERRITORY/1860MAP.html

Seems though that Arizona was not a Union State, I am guessing because it was a territory at the time. In fact I don't see it at all on the 1860 map of the States, so it's like wild country. Then am I right to assume that people aren't going to be concerned about the war? Just want to know, because it seems to me that talk of the war would probably dominate most conversations. Even though it would not have a direct effect on Shady Gultch at the time, I am assuming the politics of the time would effect it some what. Man, I should have watched that old series, 'North and South'.

I honestly don't know if I can pull off 'civil war' writing. There are a lot of details.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:19 am

Try these sites Tiph:

http://www.historyplace.com/civilwar/index.html

http://americancivilwar.com/tl/timeline.html

http://www.civilwar.com/

for a time line on the civil war and events leading up to it. It would seem better to me to make it just after the civil war. The country was in a time of reconstruction of the south and many of the confederate soilders were moving west and the American Indian Wars were about to explode:

Navajo Conflicts 1849-63 Arizona and New Mexico Persistent fighting between the Navajo and the U.S. Army led to their expulsion and incarceration on an inhospitable reservation far from their homeland.

Sioux Wars 1854-90 Wyoming, Minnesota and South Dakota Moved across the Mississippi into "Indian Country," the Sioux under Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse resisted waves of settlers and prospectors, to keep their hunting grounds.

Rogue River War 1855-56 Southwestern Oregon Attacks on Rogue River Valley Indian people were meant to start a war that would employ miners unable to work because of a drought. Indian survivors were forced out to reservations.

Third Seminole War 1855-58 Florida Everglades Under Chief Billy Bowlegs, the Seminole mounted their final stand against the U.S. Bowlegs surrendered; he and others were deported to Indian Territory in Oklahoma.


Apache Attacks 1861-1900 New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and Mexico Rejecting reservation life, Apaches under Geronimo, Cochise and others staged hundreds of attacks on outposts. Geronimo finally surrendered in 1886; others fought on until 1900.
Ute Wars 1865-68, 1879 Utah The Ute nation rose episodically against the whites. Mormon settlers were relentlessly overtaking Ute lands and exhausting their resources and wildlife.
Modoc War 1872-73 Northern California and Southern Oregon Captain Jack and followers fled from their hardscrabble reservation to the lava beds of Tule Lake, where they held out against soldiers for six months. He was hanged.

Red River War 1874-75 Northwestern Texas William T. Sherman led a campaign of more than 14 battles against the Arapaho, Comanche, Cheyenne and Kiowa tribes, who eventually surrendered.

Battle of the Rosebud 1876 Rosebud Creek, Southern Montana Lakota and Cheyenne under Crazy Horse turned back soldiers commanded by General George Crook, thereby cutting off reinforcements that might have aided Custer at the Battle of the Little Bighorn.

Battle of the Little Bighorn 1876 Southern Montana George A. Custer and 250 soldiers under his immediate command confronted Sioux warriors on the Little Bighorn River and were wiped out in the ensuing fight.

Nez Percé War 1877 Oregon, Idaho, Montana After fighting to keep their home in Wallowa Valley, Chief Joseph led his people on a 1,700-mile retreat to Canada. They surrendered near the border to Nelson Miles' soldiers.

The Wounded Knee Massacre 1890 South Dakota Following the killing of Sitting Bull, Big Foot took command of the final band of fighting Lakota (Sioux). They were trapped at Wounded Knee Creek and destroyed by the U.S. Army.

Also try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Territory

Texas Time Line:

http://www.lsjunction.com/events/events.htm

http://timelines.ws/states/TEXAS.HTML
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:02 am

Thanks Lac. I agree with the post civil war time line for me at least it seems a lot easier to write about the war in retrospect, rather than always building up to it. I too had researched the Indian Wars and the one time period that seemed to be fairly steady was 1870 - 1880. That decade seems a pretty good time.

If Sir Easy and Sin want to write in the 1860's, I'll comply and submit the type of character I would think best suit a pre-civil war period. Maybe some tough old pioneer type or something. I suggest though that we may want to also create a post civil war story.

Lac and I might start that off and establish it with Moonlight Mason and Captain Jackson. Now we don't want to promote dissension so we'll hold off on that story and establish Shady Gultch. We'll just follow your lead.

I was amazed to see how quickly the states changed during the time period. The pre and post civil war periods are totally different times. I can see though that far in the West they would not have been effected but personally I kind of like being able to utilize the war without having to dwell on it. Also, I like the idea of ex-Union and Confederate soldiers running into one another after the war. Five years after the battles there would still be some discord, but as Lac put it, everyone would be trying to rebuild their lives and the horizon would look bright. At least for the settlers. It looked pretty bleak for the natives, though.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:15 am

You are welcome, Tiph. I am a bit of a history buff so those are but a few great sites to do some research in. I agree with not wanting to cause dissention. So I may develope another char for Shady Gulch as well.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:59 am

Maybe some Appaloosa? You take Viggo I'll take Harris. They seem like the types with no affiliations. The kind of guys that would ride away from the impending war instead of towards it. I wouldn't mind playing an aging cowboy on his last leg, then I can be a 'smart ass' Twisted Evil

Thanks again for the History links. As a Canuck I can't really say I am all that up to date on American history. When we delve back here all we have "Is da voyagers, eh?" and that big battle with Montcalm and Wolfe, in our Upper and Lower Canada struggle but that was more during the time that the 'Last of the Mohicans' movie took place in.

Both of our countries have such rich histories but so many people are unaware of it. I myself am no different. Keeping your eyes forward is a 'Human Condition' eh? cyclops

I am trying to figure it out though. It's been fun delving back and seeing how it all fits together.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:18 am

Been a while since I watched that, will have to pull it out of my library and have a look see. Sounds interesting though.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:23 am

So I've established, Drake Hawkins. That seems like a good fictional cowboy name, eh? Let me know, Lac if you want to establish a partnership between these two characters or if you just want to keep their stories separate for now. I am not set on anything, so I'll leave it up to you.

I am going to start writing his bio, and if you want to set them up as a team I can add their meeting later.

If you want to use the Viggo Character, 'Everett Hitch', this is a good source:

http://www.brego.net/viggo/movies/appaloosa/
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:26 am

Sounds good maybe we can keep them seperate to start then they can team up. A pre-Appalossa scenerio so to speak, the expand as partners from there. It would allow us to develope our individuality to start with. Then build a bridge to establish their friendship.
Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:47 am

Totally. That's definitely the second option, we should, however, form a common link between the two characters. A common past, something that will not be apparent at the start but be revealed as they get to know one another. We can work on that as we go along.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:26 pm

Now I'm getting confused as far as the timelines are concerned. LOL This is technically Easy's story and theme, I'm just helping him out. But, I suggest that maybe we take a vote on what timeline to use so that we're not using two. How's that sound to everyone? Also, Easy was wanting to know what you all thought about the rules. Are they okay and should anything be added or deleted?

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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Oh, yeah, the rules are just fine. As for the second time line we won't implement that for a while. I'd rather write in 1870, but that's just because I am more familiar with that setting. As I said I'll do some research and apprise myself on what the States were like prior to the Civil war and create another character.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:25 pm

Okay, so I have been doing so more research. Yay!

So I would think that most of our weaponry will be from 1860 and I learned that pistols of the time commonly used a caplock mechanism. They're really archaic revolvers and bullets are not just loaded into the chamber and then fire. There are no bullets. (Well, no casings)

Check out this link for info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caplock_mechanism

So its not exactly the romantic, 'Wild West' I'm used to but gun fights will sure be short, unless we're having a shootout with rifles. Loading an 1860 pistol takes some time, in comparison to the later models where they developed metal casings.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:29 pm

We all have to make sure we are on board with the weaponry. We ran into this problem in No More Dreams, with percussion caps and paper cartridges.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:31 pm

I don't understand why 1860 rifles have casings and the 1860 model Colt revolvers don't. Can anyone enlighten me on this?
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:39 am

Smith & Wesson History
Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson came from old New England families. Horace learned the firearms trade while working at the National Armory in Springfield, Massachusetts. Daniel’s experience came from apprenticing with his brother Edwin Wesson, the leading maker of target rifles and pistols in the 1840s.
The two men formed their first partnership in 1852 in Norwich, Connecticut, with the aim of marketing a lever action repeating pistol that could use a fully self-contained cartridge. This first pistol venture was not a financial success, and by 1854 the company was having financial difficulties.
Faced with their financial difficulties, they were forced to sell their company to a shirt manufacturer by the name of Oliver Winchester. In 1866, using the original lever action design created by Smith & Wesson, Winchester’s company emerged as the famous Winchester Repeating Arms Co.
In 1856 Smith & Wesson formed their second partnership to produce a small revolver designed to fire the Rimfire cartridge they patented in August of 1854. This revolver was the first successful fully self-contained cartridge revolver available in the world. Smith & Wesson secured patents for the revolver to prevent other manufacturers from producing a cartridge revolver - giving the young company a very lucrative business.
The partners realized that when their patents expired they would need a new design to maintain their market superiority. The new design was completed in 1869 and the company began marketing it in 1870. The Model 3 American, as it became known in the United States, was the first large caliber cartridge revolver and established Smith & Wesson as a world leader in handgun manufacturing. The two most important customers for the new revolver were the United States Cavalry, which purchased 1,000 units for use on the Western Frontier, and the Russian Imperial Government.


At the age of 65, Horace Smith retired from the company and sold his share of the business to D. B. Wesson, making him the sole owner of the firm. In the late 1800’s the company introduced its line of hammerless revolvers. These are still represented in today’s handgun line.
Smith & Wesson next introduced what is probably the most famous revolver in the world, the .38 Military & Police or, as it is called today, the Model 10. This revolver has been in continual production since that year and has been used by virtually every police agency and military force around the world.
Smith & Wesson’s contribution to the history of handgun and cartridge development continued through the 20th Century. The first Magnum revolver, the .357 Magnum, was introduced by the company in 1935. In 1955 the first American made double action auto-loading pistol, the Model 39, was introduced.
The Model 29 chambered in .44 magnum - the handgun made famous by Clint Eastwood in the movie "Dirty Harry" - was unveiled in 1956. In 1965 S&W began producing the Model 60 - the world’s first stainless steel revolver - launching the era of stainless steel firearms.
The accomplishments of Smith & Wesson are so numerous that it is impossible to understand the history of modern handguns without first understanding the history of Smith & Wesson. Smith & Wesson was an industry leader in 1852 when it was first founded and continues


As per http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=11504&sectionId=10002
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PostSubject: Time line in conjunction with weaponry   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:19 am

My History

Since 1982, Ive been into black powder muzzle loading rifles, shot guns and pistols. I own 4 rifles, two, I ve built are black powder rifles , a Conn Valley Arms and a short barrel Hawkins .50 cal rifles.
I have one BP.45 cal pitol (all leadball). I hunt wild boar with my guns and use to dress up for the Old '49ers Miners Day in the Angel Camp area, Daniel Boone style clothing and racoon cap. The past seven years, I taught rimfire .22 rifle/pistol and shotgun. Last year, 4-h opened muzzleloading and so i taught that while my son graduated from high school. 4-H is hurting in N CA and one of the programs they cut was the shooting sports program...so Im back to just hunting.

My experience with percussion cap pistols...its a pain in the butt loading those leadballs into a six chamber pistol...even more fun is adding percussion cap to each chamber as well. If you're in a hurry and try to load without special tools...you're a dead man. So we might want to go with a later year...my suggestion

the new patent merges with single shot rimfire pistol 1854, Lever action Rifle 1866

the storyline of this boom town should happen in the mid 1860s...maybe 1865. ...civil war was coming to a close.


Last edited by Sir_Easy on Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: TIMELINE SHADY GULCH   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:39 am

im going to add a timeline to the storyline /theme and see what you think here...and if you want the two mixed then I'll mix the two together...ok

GOLD FEVER TIMELINE for our Fictional Shady Gulch town takes place present time 1865.

We can fib on the lever action rifles by a year..

Civil war was still ongoing in 1865 but coming to a close

Jesse James I believe was killed in 1882 but became an outlaw in 1865-1866 after the civil war.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:57 pm

1865 seems to make a bit more sense. We already have a story called No More Dreams that takes place in a fictional 1850's world so we deal with all that black powder/percussion cap stuff. I'd rather load a gun with bullets and all that good stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:44 pm

Nice work on the map and town write up by the way, Easy. Still not looking forward to trying to wrap my brain around the Civil War. I like researching, but there is soooo much on it, that its mind boggling as a Canadian its difficult to picture everything.

I know I sound like a broken record but I still believe that everyone in the country will be effected by the war, even Shady Gultch. All of our posts will constantly have to address it, since its the hot topic of the day. Not that it would dominate conversations but its something that would always be on peoples minds. Just imagine if your own country was in a Civil War, it would constantly be on my mind. That's why I am trying to learn all I can about it (well all that I can retain) so that I can make accurate posts. I just don't think its right to turn a blind eye to the war while its still going on.

Personally I believe that's why a lot of Westerns are set either during or not during the Civil War period, because it such an all encompassing part of American history that one cannot just ignore it. I can see some ignorant sorts or of course natives not being all too concerned but your typical red-blooded American would think about the conflict at least once or twice in a day. Also the setting of Shady Gultch should try and reflect the war from time to time. They are obviously way off the war path, but I think it should still be a factor.
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:24 pm

So, is it okay to get this party started?

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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:41 pm

I think we still have to establish the firearm situation. I am definitely NOT a gun guy, and I just found out something very significant, of which I am sure most of you are aware of.

There are Percussion Revolvers and then there are Cartridge Revolvers. The guns we are all used to seeing in most western movies are the latter. They came out after 1870 or around there. That's when they developed cartridges and people were able to load the bullets into the chamber.

What we are using in 1865 are still Percussion Revolvers. Checkout the following link.

http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/revolvers.htm

I have always been quite ignorant of this. When I first saw Pale Rider and Clint was reloading his pistol by swapping out the entire chamber I thought, 'Wow! What a time saver!" Little did I realize that the extra chamber he carried fired lead shots, and were all pre-loaded with percussion caps. Trying to this in the middle of gun fight would mean your certain death as Easy had previously stated.

Because Six Guns are a big part of this story I'd just like to make sure we are all on the same page or more appropriately I AM ON THE RIGHT PAGE. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:13 am

well the problem with starting the dateline in 1870 is more or less the goldrush is over and towns begin to decline. By 1880 most of all the gold mines are sealed up , closed and the thousands of miners have moved on. In other parts of the states...where the civil war took place...other ores are being mined...black coal .

So toss this around... stick more with historic boundaries of the full metal jacket cartridges and revolver, bounce the gold mines and bounce the civil war?
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